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#1 2/9/12 6:06

Samer
Member

Various particle modification projects

Mm i thought i should make a new thread for my questions and work with particles.

So first off a question .. What i want to do is : have a character shoot plasma rifle particles from his hands without using a weapon, kinda like mutant muro would shoot electricity or mukade shoots devil star, once i learn how to do that i'll use the concept for other characters, BGI Shocker shooting electricity and vdg for example.
i know it can be done, there was a video by paradox called dragon unit where a blackops tctf shot mutantmuro particles from his hands and it would home and hit the enemy .. I want to do the same but with plasma rifle or with vdg, question is how ?
i didn't find a clear tutorial on that in the wiki and i don't know enough particles or weapons to figure it out on my own..

i think that i'll have to know the particles name, attach it to the character (but wouldn't that cause the character damage?) figure out how to make him shoot it (?) (basically modify a punch tram i guess) and how to make it home to taregt (is the attractor thing related?)

paradox or gumby i know u're the most experienced with particles so if u can help (with some details please) i'll really appreciate it


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#2 2/9/12 10:09

EdT
Moderator

Re: Various particle modification projects

Here is how I added particles to the Iron Demon's kick move

In the <Particles> section of ONCCiron_demon I added:
            <ONCPParticle>
                <Name>dragon_fist</Name>
                <Type>dragon_fist_e01</Type>
                <BodyPart>None</BodyPart>
            </ONCPParticle>

In the <Particles> section of TRAMiron_kick I added:
            <Particle>
                <Start>1</Start>
                <End>200</End>
                <Bone>Chest</Bone>
                <Name>dragon_fist</Name>
            </Particle>

So the same principle should work for the weapon particles.  Extract the ONWC for the vdg and phaser as xml and see what particles they use.

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#3 3/9/12 5:38

paradox-01
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

Oh boy, particle attacks..

Dunno about Gumby or Loser, maybe they could have made a tutorial but there was no big demand, and myself couldn't do it, still can't.
(The dragon unit four years ago was created from existing files plus "trial and error".)


Here are two more cents.

BINA3RAP: in the _e file there's the spawn position and direction (both use offset x y z).
    If the particle is spawned inside a body bone it will impact there and not fly any further.
    In the _p file, <Attractor> contains a <Target> tag. "Hostiles" means the the particle will be attracted by all enemy characters.
    <DamageChar> contains a <SelfImmune> tag. If set to 1 the firing character can't hurt himself.

TRAC: add/exchange TRAM if you made a new one.
    For instance, I *exchanged* TRAMTCTCOMcomb_p with TRAMdragon_fist.
    If you *add* a TRAM keep in mind that Oni can pick up both animations: So in a test you might not see correct animation and wonder where the particle went.

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#4 3/9/12 18:43

Lukas Kreator
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

The Dragon Unit was awesome!

Remember finding it years ago on youtube totally by chance.

Last edited by Lukas Kreator (3/9/12 18:44)

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#5 3/9/12 18:56

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

Hmm.. sorry for interrupting.

But can the character in the anim state, (witch added proper executer firs) aim in with directory the particles will be lunched?
If yes how? I try many times to send particles in forward directory but with out any success.

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#6 4/9/12 4:27

paradox-01
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

Not sure if I understood you correctly.
I think that without a gun you can 'aim' vertical and horizontal only with the head of a character, rest of the body can only 'aim' horizontal.

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#7 4/9/12 5:47

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

I gave you example then.

For clearly hypothetical statement, lets say i create animation in witch konoko shot from attached to her hand pistol particle(not a weapon), and I want that this pistol(hand wherever) shot in the directory where my camera is oriented(similar to original weapon aiming). Is something like that possible for attack animation, or this is only included for weapon aim?
Or another example where, from proper animation konoko or other character lunch kamehameha like projectile from her fists but in this time the lunch arc is defined by the emitter trajectory.(lets say i want the projectile to fly forward , rather than in  the directory where the bone is rotated/ oriented).In second example the question is can i specify bone witch or better, by some empty emitter attached to pelvis witch will start sending, mentioned above projectile where i want it?Is that possible?

Last edited by ltemplar (4/9/12 5:49)

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#8 4/9/12 8:22

paradox-01
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

I don't think that would be possible.

A heavy workaround might be to
monitor the character's animations via BSL,
then giving the character a one-pixel weapon (so nobody can pick it up later),
and let that weapon fire and drop with "chr_playback [ai_name|script_id] film_name fromhere" after a few frames.
(Since it's a weapon you could fire the particle from there instead of using the body parts.)
This thing would probably need new aiming screen (TRSC+TRAS) files.
Pure theory, no guarantee that this will work.

Last edited by paradox-01 (4/9/12 8:38)

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#9 5/9/12 6:26

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

Well.. that's not exactly what i plan to do.

What I'm looking for is something like this:

1)Replacing ppp combo witch pistol wielding one.
2)Pistol will be prt. attached to bone , the same emitter witch will be lunching proper particle.

How it will work:
-The character entering his normal attack state (first in the combo)
-He lunching his first two shots from hand bone(probably) in forward directory.(exactly the same as in his original, when he will start punching someone) , then start "holstering" (animation for ending move) his weapon.
-If player(or AI) decided to shot more he entering second combo move(pp) shot much more bullets.
-But if Player(or AI) decide to go one he entering the last animation state, shotting entire clip(virtual because in this method smaller arms will have no ammo), reload it (in this state is fully venerable) , and then holster.

The rifles will work as in original.

This way we can create more armed, different characters. And have "two guns" without playing witch scripting.

The drawback will be
- impossibility to disarm that equipped opponent,
- no ammo for such guns.
- probably inability to aim such guns(but that's ok, small arms will be for short ranges(look for example on black adders) , while rifles will be for long range attacks)

I will( if possible) change flowing attacks:
- ppp combo,
- ppk combo,
- running punch hit(adding acrobatic to it),
- running in jump punch hit (more acrobatic),
- running backward punch hit,
- crunching punch hit,
- Froward punch throw( replaced by original ppp hit , or probably by something new),
- Other hits will stay the same as there are.

Also this way we can add whether weapon we want( swords, police batons,knives, french key(for workers), etc.) 

What do you think?

Last edited by ltemplar (5/9/12 6:38)

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#10 5/9/12 6:56

Samer
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

At the moment i think we're still expirementing with particles, i've been trying to find a way to give hayate a damaging sword for ages.
With melee weapons i'm presuming u'll make it a damaging particle and make it do the damage when it collides with character ? Or will it be only decorative and the actual punch will do the damage ?
for characters that shoot from their hands i've always wanted to learn how to do that since i saw paradox's dragon unit video. Haven't had the time to try it yet. But i hope u'll be adding new variants which shoot not replacing original ones .. I've always wanted to make a BGI cyborg that shoots from its arms ( and flies actually it's one of the unrevieled placeholders i had when i reserved numbers for my packages) if you do that successfuly we can work together on those characters if u want.

And question, by changing ppk and running punch for example do u mean they'll also be shooting attacks ?


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#11 5/9/12 7:19

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

"And question, by changing ppk and running punch for example do u mean they'll also be shooting attacks ?"

Yes, all mentioned in the list will be shotting attacks.

Well I'm not planing in changing all konokos , only few for example konoko in armor-weapon wielding(pistol), konoko on roof tops-sword wielding, etc. By doing this i can bring simple variety to the characters, but also to how the single levels will be played. This will also simulate the Mai as daodan host. At the beginning konoko will be more relying on the weapons(pistol knives, etc) ,when Mai ..will use more of her daodan powers(perhaps even something like kamehameha?). The sword play will be perfect match to ninjas(roof top level- chasing the Mukade) witch i always imagine as stealth sword wilder class. In my opinion this will be more interesting than simple skin change.

"With melee weapons i'm presuming u'll make it a damaging particle and make it do the damage when it collides with character"

Only decorative part yes. Adding prt. to sword will be from the one hand time consuming, from the other the characters witch the swords will be to powerful in competition to others without them. Imagine that no one will be able to block such attack .You want thous , to be only doge able? End what about sword to sword fight?

When I learn how i will for sure post here how something like that can be done.

"if you do that successfully we can work together on those characters if u want."
I see no problem in cooperation. So why not?

Last edited by ltemplar (5/9/12 7:39)

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#12 7/9/12 11:17

Samer
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

ok i really need help with this ..
I'm trying to figure out what particle the plasma rifle uses .. so i thought I'd find the ONWC of it and convert it to xml and see the particle link or something .. problem is : I can't find a single ONWC file in my entire edition folder .. I have the WP.. files (weapon page) and ONCC and all other types but can't find any ONWC :\ could they have been renamed by Onisplit to something else ?

Last edited by Samer (7/9/12 11:17)


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#13 7/9/12 11:32

paradox-01
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

there are some Oni\Edition\install\VanillaDats\level0_Final\level0_Final smile

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#14 7/9/12 12:25

Samer
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

ok found them but I must say I have no clue what I'm doing ..
There are several particles in the ONWC guess it's BINA3RAPw3_phr_e01 .. but then in the BINA3RAPw3_phr_e01 there are several emitter particles p01  p05 p06 and p08 and even e02 .. how to know which one to use ?.. i tested them .. I just set the emitter in dragon_fist_e01 to w3_phr_p01
I got this :
Oni%25202012-09-07%252020-04-45-28.jpg
the particle starts behind him and hits him but without damage .. it looks like it's the particle responsible for the effect when a target is hit by the plasma rifle ..
setting the emitter dragon_fist_e01 to w3_phr_e02
gets me this : 
Oni%25202012-09-07%252020-12-33-97.jpg

which particle is the right one ?
or is it supposed to be a combination of all those particles and then i'll need to edit all of them ? sad


It would help if i understood how weapon particles work .. example taking the plasma rifle .. when u shoot white and yellow particles emit then they hit the target which 'burns' for a while .. is each of these a separate particle and is in the e01 file ?
is there any resource on the wiki that says what each particle is ? which one is the effect which one is the "path" .. and the explaining the different flags in xml ? there are some hex stuff.

also would it be easier to just modify the color and speed of mukade's fireball, make it yellow and faster and somehow less "light" (i mean have it shoot straight like the plasma rifle instead of it floating around) ? ..
cz in the end i just want him to shoot yellow energy balls.

Last edited by Samer (7/9/12 12:38)


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#15 7/9/12 12:40

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

Umm your pretty close..

If you want to know witch particle is emitted by witch emitter.. i suggest to open up a weapon(ONWC) end check the first line there in the emitter tab - first one is always the emitter when the next one is (if had- plasma weapon doesn't have it) are for example showing shot flash(black adder) the next one is for ammo drop etc. The additional effect ones are probably the last. Thats work only for weapons witch one shotting mechanism. Those witch more than one shooting mode have different prt. layout.

Answering the question regarding to prt. you locking for it's probably w3_phr_e01 (if i remember correctly this create damaging(check he table) prt w3_phr_p01 ) . If you not sure witch prt. do dmg. check (open in XML) the first emitter, open it- check witch prt it emit. Then open up that emit , and check if this prt have dmg. seatings up .

Here is example:

from emiter check in the class.

<Emitters>
            <Emitter>
                <Class>w2_sap_p01</Class>
                <Flags />
                <TurnOffTreshold>0</TurnOffTreshold>
                <Probability>1</Probability>
                <Copies>1</Copies>
                <LinkTo />
                <Rate>
                    <Instant />
                </Rate>
                <Position>
                    <Point />
                </Position>
                <Direction>
                    <Inaccurate>
                        <BaseAngle>1.5</BaseAngle>
                        <Inaccuracy>1</Inaccuracy>
                        <CenterBias>0</CenterBias>
                    </Inaccurate>
                </Direction>
                <Speed>
                    <Uniform>
                        <Speed>2850</Speed>
                    </Uniform>
                </Speed>
                <Orientation>Velocity</Orientation>
                <OrientationUp>LocalPosZ</OrientationUp>
            </Emitter>
        </Emitters>


then open up the prt.

            <HitCharacter>
                <ImpactEffect>
                    <ImpactType>w2_sap</ImpactType>
                    <ImpactModifier>3</ImpactModifier>
                </ImpactEffect>
                <DamageChar>
                    <Damage>
                        <Random Min="5" Max="5" />
                    </Damage>
                    <StunDamage>1</StunDamage>
                    <KnockBack>
                        <Random Min="0.1" Max="0.2" />
                    </KnockBack>
                    <DamageType>3</DamageType>
                    <SelfImmune>0</SelfImmune>
                </DamageChar>
                <Chop />
            </HitCharacter>

And if you see thet this prt. doing virtually dmg. to the char then that is right prt.

There are also other things like links to impact etc.

tell me if this help you.

The only thing I don't know.. is to how put that prt. outside the fist(still connected but moved in x coordinates)
In weapons settings there is transformation matrix for this .... If You manage to solve this problem then that will be our breakthrough I was looking for.

Last edited by ltemplar (7/9/12 13:08)

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#16 7/9/12 13:10

Samer
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

Mmm ok thanks ltemplar, i understand now how to know which one is damaging .. However now i think it will be easier for me to use mukade's fireball as it has less particles involved with it .. Only 2 emitters ..
So now i got him shooting fireballs however they still shoot in a random direction .. Usually up .. Then they float around and follow enemy .. Do u know how i can set it to shoot directly straight ? The emitter has orienttovelocity flag .. What should it be to shoot straight ..
And I'm not sure i understand what emitter means and what's the difference between it and a particle ? What's the difference between the _e files and the _p files ?


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#17 7/9/12 13:54

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

e- is the shortcut for emitter
p- is for particle

orient velocity flag... if I remember correctly the plasma prt. has ability to accelerate its velocity so this flag tel him in witch direction it should doing this.

Making in to go straight forward is something witch is connected when prt. is lunched from the fist(i presume thats where you connect it).So when you goes into attack state(doing punch or kick if you using dragon unit). it lunch randomly thous prt.
Probably the source of the  problem lays where setting correct frames for attack are. Now he lunch at the beginning or at the end of the attack. Setting correct frame(check the animation and frames) when the fist is in direct forward position(weapons from the other hand don't move in x,y,z coordinates by themselves only where player/AI is looking/aiming and emitters are attached directly to them and sheering theirs orientation )probably will settle this problem . But how that's another question.

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#18 7/9/12 23:55

Samer
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

it was linked to chest .. linking it to fist made it go straighter ..

i know e is for emitter and p is for particle .. but I mean what does emitter mean ? what does it determine :\  i mean the contrail is what appears when u do a move .. the particle of the chenille when u're above full health .. what is the emitter ?  is it the particle that appears when u shoot ? or is it the contrail of the particle shot ? or is it there just to orient the particle ..

i mean ninja's fireball .. the actual ball that flies is this the emitter e or the p particle ? .. visually what is the emitter ?
if i want to change the fireball color and speed would i change stuff in the e or in the p file ?

i was hoping there would be just a wiki page called particles that explains all this and what the flags mean sad

what does sprite mean ? or draw as sky  or  lock position to link

2012-09-08_082754.jpg
so far got him shooting yellow fireballs

what i want to do still is :

the pink purple contrail behind the fireball, I want to change that to ninja's electric contrail h2h_nintrail_e01
i found in the p <HasContrailData>true</HasContrailData>  and <IsContrailEmitter>true</IsContrailEmitter> .. but can't figure out where the contrail name is specified in it ?
i also want to make the particle faster like the plasma rifle ..  and not have it follow enemies .. make it shoot straight can follow target only if it's in front of it on a very small radius .. and when it hits target want it to have the plasma rifle effect (burn with yellow for a while)

also change it's texture or shape .. if i want it to make it more opaque and spherical ..

any help would be appreciated .. paradox sad ?

EDIT : ok progress on the hit effect .. Still the other questions, contrail, shape and speed and how it follows enemies.
2012-09-08_084600.jpg


EDIT 2 : this is kinda cool tried not to make it follow enemies by copying this
<Update>
                <MoveLine />
                <SetVelocity>
                    <Speed>speed</Speed>
                    <Space>0</Space>
                    <NoSideways>1</NoSideways>
                </SetVelocity>
                <AnimateToValue>
                    <Target>speed</Target>
                    <Rate>3000</Rate>
                    <Value>10000</Value>
                </AnimateToValue>
                <AnimateToValue>
                    <Target>scale</Target>
                    <Rate>-15</Rate>
                    <Value>1</Value>
                </AnimateToValue>
            </Update>
from BINA3RAPw3_phr_p01
ended up with this .. the particle stays in place as if it's a barrier that the AI can't cross tongue those are the result of several punches .. cool for another idea .. can be a special ability for imago konoko ^_^
Oni%25202012-09-08%252009-00-27-95.jpg

Last edited by Samer (8/9/12 1:09)


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#19 8/9/12 2:55

paradox-01
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

BINA3RAP can be gven any name. Oni dev tried to use a name system to better remember what a file do. But actually a file can have any name no matter the content, link must be correct.
Like ltemplar said:
_e emitter
_p particle
_x expiration? <Lifetime><FadeOut><TimeToDie>?
_f fire? (decorative ones and real damage doer?)
-------------
d_ decal
w_ weapon
h2h_ hand to hand
env_ environment
super_ daodan / daodan related
.. other/more unique particle

particle textures:
e.g. <TexGeom>w9_aura</TexGeom>
-> TXMPw9_aura.oni
<Scale> x deformation (1 = original size)
<YScale> y deformation (1 = original size)
<Tint> texture gets tinted

Information: that's what we have at the moment.
If you find something new or outdated then edit the page, things doesn't get written by themselves.

Hic sunt dracones.

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#20 8/9/12 4:32

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

I see where the problem lays.

<SetVelocity>
                    <Speed>speed</Speed>
                    <Space>0</Space>
                    <NoSideways>1</NoSideways>
                </SetVelocity>

To use this you need firs to determinate(in prt. or the in the emitter settings) , the initial velocity of the particle (see entire plasma emitter end plasma prt. first)

I'm also very interested in how Barabbas gun work(its creating prt. that is sending another one when the time is right....that could be our solution to setting right frame for attack- or creating kamechame like one smile ).

And if you want create barrier like attack.. you need first to set proper life time for the prt. Setting it on 0 (infinite) it's not a god idea (unless you try to kill a game engine).

Last edited by ltemplar (8/9/12 4:45)

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#21 8/9/12 6:26

Samer
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

Paradox .. I know about the names .. But i can't figure out in the xml file where it specifies which contrail it uses .. There are links that say it has contrails but i don't see where it specifies the name of the contrail to change it .. In the oncc for example u simply add contrail to the particle part .. In the tram also u add contrail or trail .. But for a particle how do i specify the contrail ?

thanks for the link it does help .. Don't know why it didn't show when i searched for particles on the wiki.

Thanks for writing the info .. i'm still struggling to understand the basics of the particle .. Yet alone update the info about it .. It doesn't help that i'm not getting enough time to read and understand the xml fully ..
trac and tram xml were self explanetory but here i feel i need a dictionary for each line in the xml tongue


and unleash dragon latin thingy for u too ^_^ ..

ltempelar paradox made something similar in a mod for muro kamechame thing or whatever it's called .. It's on the depot somewhere


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#22 8/9/12 7:34

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

Well i wasn't aver about existence of such mod.. thanks.. I will definitely look into it.

Samer. if you rely want to know how thous things work(link witch end where) you should start studying ONIA(Oni Character Impact Array) thing. There is the scheme were itch prt. are linked, how collisions works, etc (check head shot mod for more info on the depot - there should be posted link to that scheme).

Ok. i tried that kamehama mod.. but i don't see making him kamehameha(only once when when I wrote "test" in the console) If this idea will be expanded in the future, then he should do kamehameha as char by taping some button(punch or kick , or any other move replacement), Or maybe I do something wrong and thats why it's not working as it should?
BTW. taping test once again in the console, causing Oni to crash (yes we all love that lite window) , so this is only one-use idea.

Last edited by ltemplar (8/9/12 9:07)

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#23 8/9/12 9:16

Samer
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

i don't know paradox has to answer that.

still hoping someone would just define the "emitter" for me .. and "sprite"

Last edited by Samer (8/9/12 9:24)


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#24 8/9/12 9:42

ltemplar
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

emitter-luncher in games engines - point in the space that allow to be attached to something and then to emit particle(bullets for example). Games particle systems uses emitters because it's much easier to lunch soothing from point , than global coordinates (think about them ,as helpers in 3d programs or centers for determining local coordinates for object)

sprite-in other words static or animated picture used in games(mostly 2d but also 3d).Simple plane witch have texture. In 2d games used for example creating characters , or animated flashy attack. In 3d games used as texture for particles.

BTW. Can developers working on improving game engine could add to XSI mod tools defined flags(as helpers) for creating particles or emitters? If possible off course.It will be much easier to play witch them in 3d program , and set them there , than playing in this XML's matrix transformation part. In Earth 2160 for example there is special  string flag for helpers defined as BULLET . Something like that in XSI in modifying for example weapons will be a bless and definitely will sped up this process.

Last edited by ltemplar (8/9/12 10:08)

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#25 8/9/12 9:48

Samer
Member

Re: Various particle modification projects

thanks ^_^


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