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#1 3/2/11 15:29

Gumby
Member

Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

In the interests of keeping multiplayer interesting and Konoko from being so dominant, the character classes will need to be rebalanced at some point.

General:
Females will have both a shin grab and a stomach pain animation, though the stomach pain anim will be shorter than the male version.
The game settings will be altered to no longer adjust hit points based on difficulty level.
Throw ranges would also most likely be reduced for most classes.

Classes:
Each class will have a focus. There are some things they will be good at, others not so much. Hit points will probably need adjusting after playtesting.

Konoko\Generic Female:
HP: 175
Females will gain access to Konoko's TRAMs. A reskin of some of the civilians to look more battle ready would be nice.
Balanced character, with equal focus on throws and combos. Not much to say, but everyone should be familiar with how Konoko plays. smile

Furies:
HP: 150
Shin stomp will be nerfed in some form. Need to see if there is some way to stop it from being used quickly twice in a row, while still allowing you to combo off of it. Maybe find a way to slow down the beginning of the animation. That way if you hit with it you can do combos, but if you try to do it twice in a row, the enemy will have time to escape.
This class should be very focused on combos. Fury moves are very comboable, if any of you have played against me you will know that. wink

Ninjas:
HP: 125
Ninjas will be mostly hit and run. They will have automatic dashing. They will be mostly focused on taking advantage of an opening, getting in a quick combo+throw, and getting out of there. The infinite combo will be removed, somehow. They will get a damage buff of some form. Their "backbreaker" will definitely get a damage increase. I may also turn off footstep sounds for them, just to make them more sneaky. smile

Tankers:
HP: 150
Tankers will be focused on high damage. They already have very punishing throws and attacks. I'll be increasing the vulnerability of the moves that leave them on the ground. Best advice: don't stay close to them. They won't be vulnerable to stun attacks due to being SLDs. Needs more fleshing out.

TCTF SWAT:
HP: 200
Focused on blocking and countering attacks. Their main weakness is their lack of comboing and low damage throws. They will gain protection from stun attacks (shin and "jewels"), and their normal block animation(s) will block both high and low attacks.

Elites:
HP: 250
Focused on tanking attacks, I guess. They won't be able to dash, but they will probably get a slight damage boost.

Strikers:
??? I really don't know what to do with these guys.

Comguys:
In the future, these guys will be a weapons focused class, I guess. Can't think of what else to do with them.

Generic Males:
See Strikers. : /


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#2 3/2/11 15:48

Lithium
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Strikers should be similar to SWATS but have less health, weak throws, but decent attacks, like the kicks and punches
Idk that's my suggestion
Also Ninjas seem to have too much of an advantage

and yes i am lurking the forums, no school for 3 days

Last edited by Lithium (3/2/11 15:50)

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#3 3/2/11 15:53

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

How? They have the lowest health of any of the classes. Trust me, ninjas are HARD to use.


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#4 3/2/11 16:00

Lithium
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Ok fine, what do you think should be added for males? Terrible fighters hmm

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#5 3/2/11 16:06

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Probably nothing. The only reason I moved females to having Konoko stats is because we don't need 10 billion Konokos running around.


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#6 3/2/11 16:24

Nitr0
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

My suggestions:
Ninjas - at least 150 hp. Turn on the footsteps. I think that they don't need automatic dash, they have shadow dashing as escape moves smile Also try to decrease the efficiency the PPKKKK combo somehow. I love ninjas and I know how that combo is powerful and it's quite hard to avoid it. I think you know what i mean smile

Tankers - 175 hp.

TCTF SWATS - definitely less health, but more powerfull combos and throws. Blocking should be reduced... hmm

Strikers - Just make more powerfull combos and thats all. About 150/175 hp.

This is my opinion, maybe you don't agree.
What about bosses - Muro, Mukade, Barabus... Are you going to put them in MP?


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#7 3/2/11 17:53

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Barabus will be an alternate Elite model, no Earthquaker.
Mukade will be an alternate ninja.
Muro...no idea. smile

Ninjas - I already said I would reduce the PPKKKK spam. What kind of gameplay do you think ninjas should be suited for, if not sneaking around? The auto dash is to make it so they can close the gap quickly. I was going for uniqueness. If you have a better direction, say so.

Tankers - they might need an HP buff, but remember, they have amazing offense AND get stunned less than other characters. They will be taking less damage than normal regardless.

SWAT - Meh. I don't want them to turn into the same thing as Strikers\Elites.

Strikers - maybe.

My ideas were made to encourage each class to play differently, taking advantage of the already existing moves.


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#8 3/2/11 17:56

Lithium
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Idk, i think weak throws for Strikers would be good, but good melee attacks

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#9 3/2/11 19:11

NMS
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Gumby's ideas seem like a good start. Here are my thoughts:

The huge range on Strikers' throws is probably their biggest (only?) advantage. Their other moves are not great. But making some of their basic punches and kicks faster could make them decent.

It's hard to do much for generic males. But Griffin is surprisingly tough in vanilla Oni. I think he just has very good blocking.

Does Muro need to be changed? He's definitely a strong and well-rounded character, but nothing strikes me as particularly broken except his front throw, which is tied with Elites' for most damaging at 35.

Obviously back throw damages need to be more balanced across characters, particularly Konoko's backbreaker (70 damage) and SWAT's throw (0 damage, presumably by mistake). 35-45 strikes me as a reasonable amount for most characters.

Finally, is there some way to limit super moves? The precise timing is supposed to limit them, and AIs usually don't spam them, but a player who can do them reliably can wait for the opponent to approach and do a super move as soon as they attack or get into range. This doesn't make for very interesting fights. The only (partial) counter I found against Gumby was to lead with a jump attack, allowing me to veer out of the way or land behind him. Most characters' jumping is not good enough for this though. Maybe there could be a limit on how often they are used? Or they shouldn't be so effective at preventing the character from being hit?

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#10 3/2/11 19:49

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

It's honestly no different than waiting to do any other move until a character is in range. They also generally have large periods of time after the fact where they are vulernable. Just bait them into doing the move, then punish them for missing. I might increase the afterwards vulnerability though,

The biggest issue with Muro is the surprising amount of reach his attacks have, and the easy as hell throws.


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#11 4/2/11 4:42

Delano762
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Automatic dash sounds painful. I don't wanna get hit by random traffic in slow motion.

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#12 4/2/11 12:13

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Automatic dash is not painful. There's a package in AE you can play around with to give all the AIs automatic dash.


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#13 5/2/11 17:33

Mukade
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Nitr0 wrote:

My suggestions:
Ninjas - at least 150 hp. Turn on the footsteps. I think that they don't need automatic dash, they have shadow dashing as escape moves smile Also try to decrease the efficiency the PPKKKK combo somehow. I love ninjas and I know how that combo is powerful and it's quite hard to avoid it. I think you know what i mean smile

This is my opinion, maybe you don't agree.

I reallllly don't agree, sorry. As it is, ninja's may seem pretty awesome, I've used them for some time, but head to head with Konoko, doesn't matter how long I've been using him, they fail hard, they just can't compete. But instead of making them slightly better, you're just making them worse:
Their shadow dash is useful, but human opponents are far harder to fool than computers, I've tried it against Gumby and he nearly always pulls me out if it with a throw. Their advantage is speed, and so that needs to be capitalized on. Their PPKKKK combo is powerful, but right now it's the only semi powerful move they have.

I like Gumby's suggestions, and in fact I was thinking something very similar, when I was working on my Special Forces mod. I was in the process of editing a TRAC that would give it strong backbreaker moves (such as neck-breaker) and other throws that would allow for quick recovery, (such as the furies, running throw kick throw, that jumps right back to running when it's executed.) I still believe Shadow Dash could be improved upon, but I think I'm satisfied to try Gumby's other suggestions, and if those still prove insufficient, then I'll consider other options.

As for the other classes, I don't know them as well, and so I can't say much. I can attempt to repair the fury's shin kick, since that sounds like it's in my area of expertise :-/ I think I could probably play with both the fury's kicking animation, and the target's stun animation, and find a balance, that would allow for a combo to be made while they're stunned, but not a repetition of the same move. A longer kick animation, and a shorter stun time might be enough. Just enough time to throw the target, but not enough time to hit them again.

If I can think of anything else, I'll pass it on.

Last edited by Mukade (5/2/11 17:34)


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#14 5/2/11 17:42

Delano762
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Besides, isn't it a bit too... early for rebalancing? You know, making Flatline more-or-less user-friendly? Getting rid of some annoying commands? Shouldn't that be first?

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#15 5/2/11 18:45

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

It's called teamwork. There are other members of the community who can do these kinds of things. And it's never too early to start some brainstorming.


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#16 5/2/11 19:28

TheCreature
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

I really like how Ninjas are unique in this balance.  I'd like to see the rest of them more unique.  Keep the Elites as tanks, and the comguys as weapons.  (how're you gonna do that?  boosted damage, start with extra ammo, start with better weapons?)  I'd like to see something like a Daodan class, where you get (More) extra damage and health from overpower effect.

My sugestions, as to Strikers and Males, is make 'em similar to Konoko (Muro's moveset?)  If you want to make it realistic, I'd give females/konoko better kicks and weaker punches, and males/muro/striker better punches and weaker kicks.


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#17 5/2/11 21:21

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

In the future, Comguys will get an extra clip or two and the option to possibly start off with an extra weapons. This is kind of the far future, once I get a spawn menu working. My goal is to keep everything as unique as possible. Every class should be different (and fun!) to play.


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#18 8/2/11 10:43

TOCS
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

When talking about multiplayer in general - I believe we should have a 'no throws' mode from the go, because there's no way to avoid it, and people might start spamming it. smile


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#19 8/2/11 11:31

Mukade
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

That might be an interesting fight, without throws, it would focus a lot more on blocking, which I think most of us never really took the time to master, since if you jsut stand there staring at the enemy, they'll throw you.

Although, in addition to that, I think it would also be nice to expand on the rudimentery "throw counter" system that was made a small time ago. I doubt that will be ready for a long time, if ever, but it might be worth looking at in the future.


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#20 8/2/11 12:43

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

TOCS wrote:

When talking about multiplayer in general - I believe we should have a 'no throws' mode from the go, because there's no way to avoid it, and people might start spamming it. smile

That's why you don't stand so close to your enemy. tongue


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#21 8/2/11 14:42

s10k
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Strikers:
HP: 150 (like furies)

Balanced throws/combos strength. Probably faster kicks/punches.

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#22 8/2/11 14:54

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Yeah, I guess they could be another "balance" class.


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#23 9/2/11 19:34

Mukade
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

I think that strikers should have a general boost of all abilities, damage wise, since their moves are very inferior compared to most others.

Gumby wrote:

That's why you don't stand so close to your enemy. tongue

Yeah, but that's the thing, I don't like all the running around, never really did. I'm sure I could get used to it, but then the only real skill involved is just knowing when to attack and when to retreat. A direct faceoff without having to worry about throws would make much more use of block and escape moves, and you'd be able to chain together other attacks, which you don't get the opportunity to do so much with present fighting tactics.

I would never suggest taking out throws altogether, but I do like the idea of some way to disable them


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#24 9/2/11 23:52

Gumby
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

Stay within melee range and out of throw range. tongue I'm going to be reducing the range of throws across the board (the more damage a throw does, the closer you have to be to get it), so that they wont be so annoying.


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#25 13/2/11 5:16

azewrath
Member

Re: Multiplayer Character Rebalancing Project

What about unblockable attacks? I feel those attacks add variety other than the usual blocking and throwing as having those would force you to do an escape move.

For TCTF Swats, I kinda feel their punch combo is really pathetic, lacking damage and range. Overall, having lots of hp but unable to dish out dmg sounds pretty boring for me, unless he's meant to tank. Perhaps you can increase his overall damage to compensate for his lack of combo n mobility. Hit slow n hard

Last edited by azewrath (13/2/11 5:21)


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