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#1 06/10/07 00:06

harro11
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 06/09/07

blue screen of death!

So i just re-installed oni for the first time in over a year. I'm running XP with a 1.6GHz AMD processor, 512 ram, and an ATI Radeon 9250. I didn't have the "blam" problem, but the game will crash at RANDOM times to the BSOD (it used to just restart the computer immediately but i disabled auto-restart). It's been doing it more at random times during the manufacturing plant. I downloaded the demo and it does exactly the same thing in the airport level. I've tried updating my video driver, but no joy. Maybe it's too new?? Anyone else have these problems with a Radeon? Help!

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#2 06/10/07 00:06

harro11
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 06/09/07

Re: blue screen of death!

by the way, in the BSOD it says "BAD_POOL_CALLER"

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#3 06/10/07 08:06

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: blue screen of death!

The BSOD is not a common crash. Neither is "random" crashing... Is your XP version OK? smile

Not sure if this will help, but here are a few "common" tips.

Try to use Daodan (vtuneapi.dll) for both versions of Oni: http://sfeli.oni2.net/daodan/basic.zip
The "demo" one is meant for the demo, and the "standard" might work for your full version.
(For both of them, just put vtuneapi.dll alongside Oni.exe in the Oni folder and run Oni)

Also try to download and run this (tell us what the output is): http://sfeli.oni2.net/files/glist.zip
The most relevant output is the two flags in the last line of the output.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#4 06/10/07 09:06

harro11
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 06/09/07

Re: blue screen of death!

Tried the daodan dll, crashed again at a seemingly random point (although it's always roughly the same area) in the manufacturing plant. Same thing, still BAD_POOL_CALLER.

Ran glist.exe:
OpenGL version: 1.3.1072 WinXP Release
Render: Radeon 9200 Series DDR x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE
Driver Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Pixel-format flags: GENERIC_FORMAT = no, GENERIC_ACCELERATED = no
Extensions list: 1789 bytes

I would imagine my xp is fine, i didnt actually buy it myself but i'm eligible to receive updates and ive never had any problems with it.

Thanks for your help, does any of that give you anything to go on? Your efforts are appreciated! smile

Last edited by harro11 (06/10/07 09:06)

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#5 06/10/07 10:06

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: blue screen of death!

What areas does it like to crash in? (you can unlock all levels with the winlevel cheat)

Do you indeed have the latest driver for your Radeon (my OpenGL version is 1.5.4582.)?
The GFX driver doesn't usually cause ingame crashes: either lag or crash at startup.

So, not much to suggest on the basis of your reports (even debugging would be hard).
Try this, though: before playing, set the Quality slider (in Options) to minimum.
Also try running Oni with the -noswitch command-line parameter.
http://wiki.oni2.net/index.php/Customiz … _arguments


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#6 06/10/07 23:06

harro11
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 06/09/07

Re: blue screen of death!

The plot thickens...

I skipped to the manufacturing plant with "winlevel" and it crashed again near the start. I realised i hadn't changed the quality or added the -noswitch parameter. I did so and started on the airport cargo hanger (or whatever its called, the level after airport) and almost finished it - i paused to go to something else and when i got back it had crashed. However the text was different, and it appeared truncated:

"...for any Windows updates you might need.
Run the driver verifier against any new or suspect drivers - If that doesn't reveal the corrupting driver, try enabling special pool. Both of these features are intended to catch the corruption at an earlier point when the offending driver can be identified.
Try safe mode, etc etc
Try disabling BIOS memory options e.g. caching or shadowing etc etc. "

So it looks like theres something wrong with my Radeon driver... this kinda makes sense; when i installed the latest version of CATALYST Control Centre, the install just kinda froze halfway thru setup. I killed it and re-installed, and it appeared to work - as in it said setup was complete and prompted me to restart. Still though, maybe the problem lies here.

So does anyone have any other locations for updating an ATI Radeon other than just downloading the control centre from ATI's website?

HOWEVER, i decided i'd try the airport again with -noswitch and quality down. Worked like a charm (thanks geyser! smile ), first of all i got all the way thru manufacturing plant (which i'd never been able to do), cruised straight through airport, finished and loaded up where i'd gotten to last time in the cargo hanger. I finished off that level (didn't crash this time) and quit (time to do some exam revision) but as soon as i'd confirmed quitting from the main menu, the game crashed again to the old BSOD with BAD_POOL_CALLER.

So i would assume the exit triggered that, although i have no_idea_why. Probably best to set that aside and focus on eliminating the driver problem BSOD. So again - anyone got any ideas on updating the drivers for an ATI Radeon aside from downloading the entire control centre (all 45MB of it...)?

Last edited by harro11 (06/10/07 23:06)

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#7 06/12/07 12:06

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: blue screen of death!

If your only problem with Catalyst is the download size, I suggest you bite the bullet and download it.
It's the official way to upgrade your system, and I wouldn't seek out alternate, non-guaranteed ways.

You can also google for advice specific to your card, like: catalyst+radeon+9250
Then you'll get forum threads like: http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=95248
Searching for BAD_POOL_CALLER also might yield some results, but I'd be careful.
There are many people out there whose first advice will be to format your HDD smile
Or to tweak your CPU settings in the BIOS or Mukade knows what else...

Last edited by geyser (06/12/07 12:06)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#8 06/13/07 08:06

harro11
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 06/09/07

Re: blue screen of death!

harro11 wrote:

when i installed the latest version of CATALYST Control Centre, the install just kinda froze halfway thru setup. I killed it and re-installed, and it appeared to work - as in it said setup was complete and prompted me to restart. Still though, maybe the problem lies here.

I did install CATALYST, but there was a slight hiccup (what i was talking about in my previous post). As i said, It it seemed to work when i tried it again, but just to be completely beyond doubt i completely removed everything ATI related on my computer (the uninstall took literally around 10 minutes) and reinstalled the version of CATALYST that i'd downloaded previously.

Things seemed to be going ok - however, when Barabas kidnapped Shinatima the game didnt even go to a BSOD, it just completely and utterly froze and not even cntrl-alt-delete was responsive. So i restarted and tried the game again, and this time i DID get a BSOD.

All things considered i think there's probably something to do with my BIOS - the BSOD text seems to change at random and even after i'd reinstalled CATALYST i still got one referring to the drivers (eventually). I think i'll just leave it for now, as much as i love Oni i can't reformat my HDD cos i dont have the XP disk, plus many more reasons...
Thanks for the help though, its appreciated.

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#9 06/13/07 11:06

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: blue screen of death!

The one about formatting your HDD (or rather, reinstalling the OS) was a joke, well, sort of.
Sure it's an easy way to undo the damage done to the system by more or less clueless hacks.
As such it's often recommended on the tech forums, at least more often than appropriate smile
If you've messed a lot with your GFX drivers in the past and can't remember what you did...
...then usually it's a lot more rewarding to get a "new" OS than to try and fix the old one smile
If, on the other hand, you don't have a long history of hacking your OS with an axe...
...then radical fixes are not immediately relevant, and you may hope to solve the problem.
Just be sure to remember everything you did to solve it, not just the last action taken...

OK, that wasn't a very helpful rant. Getting practical.

0) If Oni hangs, Ctrl+Alt+Del should work better if you run Oni in -noswitch mode.

How exactly did you "completely remove everything ATI related"? Regedit?
People on tech forums often recommend wizards for cleaning up GFX drivers.
Did you use one of those? Isn't the Catalyst installer supposed to do that job?

1) Did you try to run Oni in Windows95/98 compatibility mode (right click Oni.exe, Properties)?

2) Also, is there anything interesting at the end of startup.txt or debugger.txt?
(those two logs are generated in your Oni folder, alongside Oni.exe)

Do you encounter a BSOD in other applications than Oni?
Your problem has never been reported for Oni before. However, people with Radeon cards have reported it in other situations.
So if I were you I'd either seek advice on tech forums, or just search them for similar reports (watch out for "radical" hacks though).
If you have reasons to suspect a BIOS problem, you can always try the other hack I mentioned above: underclocking the CPU smile
I haven't had to deal with such a problem in the past and neither has anyone here on OCF. AFAIK.
So maybe we're not the right ones to ask. Be sure to come back and report success though smile

Again, the best advice I can give (apart from the stuff in bold up there: Win9X compatibility and debug logs) is:
to google for catalyst+radeon+9250, maybe in combination with bsod and bad_pool_caller if you're feeling lucky.

Last edited by geyser (06/13/07 11:06)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#10 06/13/07 14:06

Ether
Member
From: Czech Republic
Registered: 05/26/07

Re: blue screen of death!

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#11 06/15/07 00:06

harro11
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 06/09/07

Re: blue screen of death!

Wow. Debugger.txt doesn't seem too happy.

Here are the first few lines:
### warning: particle class 'w3_phr_e01' emitter 5 can't find emitted particle 'w3_phr_p08'
### warning: particle class 'pstream_shooter' emitter 2 can't find emitted particle 'w_pstream_shot2'
### warning: particle class 'flame2_e' emitter 2 can't find emitted particle 'test_smoke'
### warning: particle class 'env_cloud02_p01' emitter 1 can't find emitted particle ''

There are a few more of these, then it goes on to
failed to locate instance TC_mach_tube

etc. From then on, EVERY SINGLE LINE starts with "failed to locate..."
Startup.txt looks a bit better...i don't really know what i'm supposed to be looking for in it but i can't see anything like what was in debugger.txt.

When it hung previously it was in -noswitch mode. I tried compatibility mode, got another BSOD. However, the ones i've been getting lately have been saying "DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL" or just "IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL".  In one of the DRIVER ones, it even referenced a file: tcipip.sys (Address: BA77EFA7 base at BA775000)

I uninstalled all the ATI stuff from Add/Remove programs: it had an uninstall utility just for CATALYST, however directly above that there was another one saying "Remove all ATI related software" or something. So that seemed to be the go. Seemed to work alright, when the computer restarted then resolution was something hideously low and it started trying to install "my new hardware" for me. So i ran the install for CATALYST, went smoothly, loaded up Oni and thats when it hung (subsequently followed by a BSOD the next time i tried it).

I googled IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL and DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL and the consensus seemed to be that they were indeed driver related. So instead of downloading a different version of catalyst i just downloaded the drivers (2nd newest release) and did the uninstall bizzo again. No joy. Another BSOD. (It also hung at the airport at some point.)

At some point after googling BAD_POOL_CALLER i found another thread on it - seems someone had run a memory test and it had identified some of his RAM to be faulty. So i followed the link, downloaded the memory test but it didn't find anything. (Thread: http://kindel.com/blogs/charlie/archive … 6/282.aspx Link: http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp. The circumstances are quiet different but it was about all i could find.)

So it *still* appears there's something wrong with my driver.  You're right though, there does seem to be some problems out there with the Radeon 9200 series, for example:
http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/sh … hp?t=55333
http://tronforum.boxhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1443

But i still haven't found any real resolutions - one guy claims the latest version of catalyst helped him, but i can guarantee 100% i did not fix my problem. To answer your other questions, no i don't get BSODs on other programs. I don't have a history of hacking my bios/OS either - the startup screen seems kinda dodgy tho, has "Cheepobios v1.12" or something written at the bottom (under the giant AMD logo). When i google the BSOD text though theres always a reference to drivers trying to access the wrong address, for example (from support.microsoft.com, on DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL):

CAUSE
This issue can occur when the Driver Verifier feature is enabled and a driver has used an improper address. Note that the driver that is causing this issue may be listed in the error message.

Pretty hard to believe ATI would put up dodgy drivers...that what it APPEARS to be though. What about the stuff in debugger.txt? Anything to go on there?


EDIT: Another od thing i just thought of: I've neither finished the game nor manually hexed persit.dat, yet i can use the cheats. Odd?

Last edited by harro11 (06/15/07 00:06)

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#12 06/15/07 05:06

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: blue screen of death!

Your way to remove "all ATI-related software" was apparently proper: you effectively removed your GFX hardware and then added it again smile
If you looked up the recent Catalyst installer from the "install new hardware" dialog, then your GFX drivers are probably as fine as they can be.

The Daodan DLL enables the cheats regardless of the setting in persist.dat

The text in debugger.txt is "normal": just messed-up game content. Everybody gets that. There might have been something else though.
Since your problem occurs ingame, maybe startup.txt doesn't have any relevant info (most of it gets dumped at startup, aptly enough).
Still, startup.txt holds the information on your GFX hardware and driver as far as Oni is concerned, so just dump that part here please.

I told you people reportedly fixed BAD_POOL_CALLER by reducing the frequency of the CPU in the BIOS. That was on a French forum.
Other people reported that the RAM was the problem, and others got rid of the problem after they did somehing to their SFX card smile
Also, a whole lot of people blame their network connection and/ro modem for the BSOD, as irrelevant as network is to their application.
So it is not certain what part of your system is responsible for the BSOD. The best advice at that point is to use the Driver Verifier:

Run the driver verifier against any new or suspect drivers - If that doesn't reveal the corrupting driver, try enabling special pool. Both of these features are intended to catch the corruption at an earlier point when the offending driver can be identified.

You got this message on one of the BSOD, didn't you? Sounds like good advice: tried it? smile
Ether gave a link to MS's overview of Driver Verifier up there: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms792861.aspx
Driver Verifier can be run as "verifier" from anywhere. I'd just run a full test on all the drivers available.
I'm not sure how you can permanently enable "special pool" so that it identifies the offending driver.

FYI, tcpip.sys (not "tcipip.sys") is a networking component. So the networking trail just might be correct.


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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#13 06/17/07 04:06

harro11
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 06/09/07

Re: blue screen of death!

My startup.txt:

system sleep disabled
keystroke traps installed
initializing daodan...
begin initializing oni
looking for the game data folder
initializing the template manager
DataFolder = GameDataFolder
Created a file iterator for the data folder.
Got Level Info for level0_Final.dat.
Valid Level level0_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level10_Final.dat.
Valid Level level10_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level11_Final.dat.
Valid Level level11_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level12_Final.dat.
Valid Level level12_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level13_Final.dat.
Valid Level level13_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level14_Final.dat.
Valid Level level14_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level18_Final.dat.
Valid Level level18_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level19_Final.dat.
Valid Level level19_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level1_Final.dat.
Valid Level level1_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level2_Final.dat.
Valid Level level2_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level3_Final.dat.
Valid Level level3_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level4_Final.dat.
Valid Level level4_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level6_Final.dat.
Valid Level level6_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level8_Final.dat.
Valid Level level8_Final.dat
Got Level Info for level9_Final.dat.
Valid Level level9_Final.dat
calling TMrRegisterTemplates
calling ONrRegisterTemplates
initializing oni platform specific code
initializing sound system 2, basic level
initializing basic sound system 2 layer...
DirectSoundCreate
direct sound dwFlags = f5f
direct sound dwFreeHw3DAllBuffers = 32
direct sound dwFreeHw3DStaticBuffers = 32
direct sound dwFreeHw3DStreamingBuffers = 32
direct sound dwFreeHwMemBytes = 0
direct sound dwFreeHwMixingAllBuffers = 32
direct sound dwFreeHwMixingStaticBuffers = 32
direct sound dwMaxContigFreeHwMemBytes = 0
direct sound dwMaxHw3DAllBuffers = 33
direct sound dwFreeHwMixingStaticBuffers = 32
direct sound dwFreeHwMixingStreamingBuffers = 32
direct sound dwMaxContigFreeHwMemBytes = 0
direct sound dwMaxHw3DAllBuffers = 33
direct sound dwMaxHw3DStaticBuffers = 33
direct sound dwMaxHw3DStreamingBuffers = 33
direct sound dwMaxHwMixingAllBuffers = 33
direct sound dwMaxHwMixingStaticBuffers = 33
direct sound dwMaxHwMixingStreamingBuffers = 33
direct sound dwMaxSecondarySampleRate = 100000
direct sound dwMinSecondarySampleRate = 100
direct sound dwPlayCpuOverheadSwBuffers = 0
direct sound dwPrimaryBuffers = 1
direct sound dwSize = 96
direct sound dwTotalHwMemBytes = 0
direct sound dwUnlockTransferRateHwBuffers = 0
setting the direct sound cooperative level
initializing oni persistance
initializing scripting
initializing binary data system
initializing imaging
initializing image system...
initializing motoko
initializing 3D display system..
initializing geometry engines...
initializing draw engines...
initializing physics
initializing oni motoko
initializing local input
initializing input system...
initializing animation system
initializing animation system...
initializing environment
initializing text system
initializing the console
initializing the materials
initializing the full sound system 2
initializing full sound system 2...
initializing particle 3
initializing oni particle 3
initializing env particle system
initializing physics
initializing game state
initializing AI 2
initializing window manager
initializing film system
initializing level
initializing oni scripting
initializing OBDr
initializing OBJr
initializing oni cinematics
initializing oni sound
initializing oni movie
initializing the pause screen
finished oni initializing
loading level 0...
setting up 3d engine...
creating new OpenGL context
OpenGL platform initialization
Using standard Windows gamma adjustment
opengl color bits = 16
opengl depth bits = 16
OpenGL vendor = ATI Technologies Inc.
OpenGL renderer = RADEON 9200 Series DDR x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE
OpenGL version = 1.3.1072 WinXP Release
OpenGL extensions = GL_ARB_multitexture GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_S3_s3tc GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_point_parameters GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine ...
multitexturing is available ...
multipass being used
OpenGL supports 6 texturing units
glBlendColor() available
OpenGL texture compression available
wglSwapIntervalEXT supported; vsync= 1
Initializing the Oni Window...
displaying splash screen...
configuring console...
engine startup complete, launch the out-of-game UI...
out-of-game UI exited...
running game...

Note that on this particular occasion oni hung in-game instead of BSODing.

I ran the driver verifier with (Create standard settings -> Automatically select all drivers on this computer); however it was so incredibly slow oni hardly ran (not just laggy, it barely moved). So i ran the verifier with all ATI drivers, loaded up Oni and got another BSOD. However the ones i've been getting lately have all been IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL which doesn't reference the driver verifier - i haven't seen BAD_POOL_CALLER for ages. If you want the exact text i'll copy it down.
The special pool option is in the custom settings tab, along with some other options - should i just enable them all? Althugh since that particular BSOD seems to have stopped occuring though i'm not sure if it will help...

Anything to go on there?
For now i'll just keep looking over forums to see if anyone else has problems with IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL and a radeon...
I haven't worked out a definite pattern of when it hangs and when it makes a BSOD; however it seems to hang more during cutscenes (last time it occured after i had died during a black screen). Note that it hangs far less frequently than it BSODs.

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#14 06/17/07 08:06

Ether
Member
From: Czech Republic
Registered: 05/26/07

Re: blue screen of death!

I've been studying the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL STOP error for some time and found some good advices.
x] Try uninstalling the ATI drivers and when Windows ask for a driver for "new hardware", tell them to use generic driver or something like that (I don't know, some drivers by M$ for nVidia cards are always present in Windows, so it doesn't offer me any other drivers). I doubt it would be possible to run Oni afterwards (generic drivers usually don't include OpenGL support), but it's worth trying.
x] More hardwareish solution would be removing all unnecesarry components, knowing that only a graphics card is necessary for normal use of a computer wink.
x] Regarding RAM, if you've more than one RAM piece, try removing all of them but one and run Oni, then replace it with the second one and so on... That should tell you, whether is your RAM bad or not. Easier solution is use of MemTest (I suppose you ran the memory test in Windows, right?). http://www.memtest.org/#downiso
If you're willing to do any of the mentioned tests, post your results here.

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#15 06/17/07 10:06

geyser
Member
From: beyond the veil
Registered: 01/14/07
Website

Re: blue screen of death!

It is not certain at all that the IRQ conflict has to do with the GFX card...
Also, I cant see what harro11 will gain if Oni lags like hell instead of BSODing...
Windows certainly has a database of old ATI drivers, but what's the point?
If you suspect that it's the newest Catalyst drivers that make the Radeon go nuts...
why not follow the advice in my first link: http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showpost.p … ostcount=3
(the advice being to thoroughly remove the current drivers, and then get a somewhat older driver for the 9250)
(note that the second link in that post is apparently irrelevant, so the guy is apparently a little bit careless... smile )

I do recommend a RAM test, and I also recommend going through the device list and check the error status in Properties.
Open "System" (from the Control Panel or by right-clicking My Computer and choosing Properties). Then choose Hardware.
Open the Device Manager. A full list of your hardware appears, and by right-clicking every device you can view its Properties.
The information there is rather basic, but if there's a system-wide conflict between two devices etc, it should show up there.

I would be surprised if such a vital component as RAM caused a BSOD only when playing Oni. Same for other vital hardware.

Finally, harro11, try running Oni with -nosound along with -noswitch. Also try running it without the Daodan DLL. Any difference?

EDIT: harro11, try to find out whether you have a RAID controller (you should know). If you do, try disabling it.
More generally, updating/upgrading your BIOS and SCSI/whatever controllers might be a good idea in your case.
Apart from the RAM, I would check whether your GFX card or sound card shares any resources with an HDD or such.

Last edited by geyser (06/17/07 10:06)


Behold the power of that which is yet unborn! For the swirling images that flow forth from the Chrysalis are only a shadow of the sleeper's true power.

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