Anniversary Edition Release! (2009-07)

love_Oni · 07/20/09 05:07

Hm... The moves can be modified by working on TRAM and TRAC. It's not very hard to do, but it isn't easy either, since with this new AE I haven't understood how to modify it yet.

And as for the basic play. Their special moves need a bit more power for one

How do you want their moves to be "more power"?

Two, the third punch in a row needs to be made a lot faster.

I haven't known how to do it yet. I think Loser can do.

It would be batter if the third kick was a knock down not a stunner, that would open a whole lot of other possibilities

This can be done easily.
But the third kick causes quite lots of stagger (I mean stagger not stun*), which can give you possibilities already. Do you really want to change it as a knock down?

Blocking is fun, but if you do the shift+forward command (not the usuall roll) it's not counted as a roll, there for it does not block any attacks

Heh, I haven't quite understood it yet. I think you mean you want the forward roll to be invulnerable for a time, right?

Strikers have a nice move - forward+kick. I think the black ops shift+kick should have the same "keep them away" effect.

That's easy to do.

What exactly do you want the TCTF block ops' AI to be? More blocking/rolling? More throwing? Agiler?...

Have you know anything about modding .oni file? You know, if you want to modify some moves, it is easy to do that if you know modding .oni file in .xml format. This work is so-called "OniSplit" modding. And you can modify anything you want immediately, without waiting for the next AE.

And one more question: How old are you?

Note: "Stagger" is the state that a character gets shocked and steps a little back. Occurs when being hit or after blocking a heavy attack.

"Stun" is the state that a character keeps holding their hands after they blocked an attack.

@Gumby: I can only install mods to the new AE in "completed level0". If I choose to install in "separated level0", Oni will crash (which I meant about it in previous post). Does that mean I can't mod properly?

Last edited by love_Oni (07/20/09 05:07)

Ire Yosuke · 07/20/09 05:07

And as for the basic play. Their special moves need a bit more power for one

How do you want their moves to be "more power"?

A:They could deal a bit more damage.

Two, the third punch in a row needs to be made a lot faster.

I haven't known how to do it yet. I think Loser can do.

A:That'd be super.

It would be better if the third kick was a knock down not a stunner, that would open a whole lot of other possibilities

This can be done easily.
But the third kick causes quite lots of stagger (I mean stagger not stun*), which can give you possibilities already. Do you really want to change it as a knock down?

A: Well if you stagger your opponent all you can do is either make a throw or get one free hit. Note that black ops don't have any special moves/throws like Konoko or Muro does.

Blocking is fun, but if you do the shift+forward command (not the usuall roll) it's not counted as a roll, there for it does not block any attacks

Heh, I haven't quite understood it yet. I think you mean you want the forward roll to be invulnerable for a time, right?

A:Yes. Theres the normal roll that you can do by pressing shift while running and there's that other roll that you can get by standing still and pressing forward+shift.

Strikers have a nice move - forward+kick. I think the black ops shift+kick should have the same "keep them away" effect.

That's easy to do.

A:

What exactly do you want the TCTF block ops' AI to be? More blocking/rolling? More throwing? Agiler?...

A:Agiler would be bad for one reason. They need to feel heavy.
1. AI is too evasive
2. AI should use more running throws and low kicks
3. AI should not try to get full 3 hit combos because it's easy to make a throw inbetween the 2nd and the 3rd kick/punch
Combos I do:
Simple combo : kick, throw, move back, run and throw, roll, lion axe.
When aproaching: Running throw, roll, low punch, leg sweep (you know the 360, knocking down one), leg sweep, roll back, repeat

More throwing yes! Check out Oni screenshots
http://img198.imageshack.us/i/strangemove.png/
And yes this can be only done when aproaching a crouching character from the back. I think they need disarming moves, taken from a striker perhaps. Also when your enemy is standing, black ops makes a regullar behind throw, which in my oppinion, could be changed to Muros neck snapping move.

Have you know anything about modding .oni file? You know, if you want to modify some moves, it is easy to do that if you know modding .oni file in .xml format. This work is so-called "OniSplit" modding.

A:I guess I could give it a shot but I'm not much of a modder. I do swordfighting mostly.
www.drahau.deviantart.com

And one more question: How old are you?

A:23

Last edited by Ire Yosuke (07/20/09 05:07)

love_Oni · 07/20/09 06:07

How do you want their moves to be "more power"?
A:They could deal a bit more damage.

OK.

This can be done easily. smile
But the third kick causes quite lots of stagger (I mean stagger not stun*), which can give you possibilities already. Do you really want to change it as a knock down?
A: Well if you stagger your opponent all you can do is either make a throw or get one free hit. Note that black ops don't have any special moves/throws like Konoko or Muro does.

OK.

Heh, I haven't quite understood it yet. I think you mean you want the forward roll to be invulnerable for a time, right?
A:Yes. Theres the normal roll that you can do by pressing shift while running and there's that other roll that you can get by standing still and pressing forward+shift.

OK. But if I do that then the striker's rolling move will also be invulnerable for a short time too, because actually TCTF black ops takes the rolling moves from the striker. But if you want I will make other rolling move for him, and something will be in addition. So what say you?

What exactly do you want the TCTF block ops' AI to be? More blocking/rolling? More throwing? Agiler?...
A:Agiler would be bad for one reason. They need to feel heavy.
1. AI is too evasive
2. AI should use more running throws and low kicks
3. AI should not try to get full 3 hit combos because it's easy to make a throw inbetween the 2nd and the 3rd kick/punch
Combos I do:
Simple combo : kick, throw, move back, run and throw, roll, lion axe.
When aproaching: Running throw, roll, low punch, leg sweep (you know the 360, knocking down one), leg sweep, roll back, repeat smile

OK. I'll look at this but I would say making AI fight better is not easy, especially make them do an irregular combo, but anyways let's hope I can do it OK?

And yes this can be only done when aproaching a crouching character from the back. I think they need disarming moves, taken from a striker perhaps. Also when your enemy is standing, black ops makes a regullar behind throw, which in my oppinion, could be changed to Muros neck snapping move.

Don't be confused by throw-type. The one you mean in the picture is striker's pistol-disarm-back-punch throw and can be done no matter the victim is crouching or not. And would you like to make a kick-behind throw for TCTF? I'll take the old one instead of delete it.

And I'd say that I'm not going to mod right now because with the new AE I must understand it a bit. So don't be anxious and take your time doing something OK? How about exploring yourself on wiki to learn modding? Yeah you will need it sometimes. I'll tell you when it's done.

And one more question: How old are you? smile
A:23

As I guessed. You are the same old as Gumby.

I noticed the Commander Patrick in your signature. Who is he?

Last edited by love_Oni (07/20/09 06:07)

Iritscen · 07/20/09 07:07

Actually Ire has four years on Gumby

Love_Oni is right, a throw is a throw. You should be able to use the rear-disarm while standing, too. There are no move variants for crouching enemies, to the best of my knowledge.

Btw, Love_Oni, have you gotten to read Gumby's instructions on making a package for the AE yet? Basically all you're doing is filling in some information in the plain-text Mod_info.cfg file and placing your files into a folder with the name of the level you're modifying (level0 in this case). Just take a look at a current AE mod package and you will quickly learn by example.

@Ire: It's too bad Oni doesn't have melee weapons, but if we ever made that work you would probably make a good consultant on how it should work It's probably not possible without source, though.

3llense'g · 07/20/09 08:07

Can't melee weapons be faked, like with guns? Or with particles?

Mengjun · 07/20/09 08:07

Strange... somehow the installer v1.01 does not open on my recording rig (64-bit Vista). Does it happen to use the registry or something? (Since I just blandly copied the Oni files from my laptop to my computer, seeing as I couldnt find my disk anymore. I think that might have screwed things up, but I'm not sure.)

The error message it gives says something about incompatible configuration or something.

Iritscen · 07/20/09 08:07

3llense'g wrote:

Can't melee weapons be faked, like with guns? Or with particles?

You can make a sword model for a character to hold in place of a gun, but no one has figured out how to make the character actually swing the weapon. Probably if we could get that part working, then, yes, particles could provide a way to let the weapon collide with enemies.

love_Oni · 07/20/09 08:07

Iritscen wrote:

Btw, Love_Oni, have you gotten to read Gumby's instructions on making a package for the AE yet? Basically all you're doing is filling in some information in the plain-text Mod_info.cfg file and placing your files into a folder with the name of the level you're modifying (level0 in this case). Just take a look at a current AE mod package and you will quickly learn by example.

Yeah, I read it before and understood. But there is one thing: what would happen if two packages had the same files? Actually I'm going to mod TCTF's 3rd kick's TRAM but there is already a file with that name in AndrashiTRAM package. If I make a package like "MyTRAM" and put in it my modified TRAMTCTFcomb_k_k_k.oni then err... how does the installer know it should install which package first? There is many thing else I will put in "MyTRAM" package so if I replace the one in "AndrashiTRAM" then it will be a mess.

Ire Yosuke · 07/20/09 09:07

To: Love_Oni
I vote yes on all that we said. Also, note that Konoko rolls have a longer invunerability time than ani AI. It's especialy visable when fighting her in dream lab and doing "Lion Axe" attack, when rolling she blocks it, while any other AI does not. And I'm talking about a special roll that strikers rearly do. Stnad still press forward+shift and you'll see.
Next.
Work on those irregular combos, I can help developing the AI so that TCTF elites will be a major pain in the ass.

About that behind throw.
Try this.
Go to Atmosphheric interior, find that furry and sneak behind her, she's crouching, use forward + punch and you'll disarm her, while as if you stun any enemy (even if the enemy has a gun), you'll just preform a regular throw, not a disarming one.
What I'm saying, add disarms for black ops. Could be taken from multiple characters and add Muros neck snap as a back throw. This way you'll have something like Konokos back braker move, since normal behind throw does little damage. Also, I think tankers forward+kick throw would be ok to add. Why? Just check out the knee protectors on the elites. The're defnitly not for fun.

TO:3llense'g
There are animations made specialy for fighting with a gun.
1. Hold a plasma rifle and press regullar punch with an TCTF elite, he makes a different punch than normal
2. Konoko holding a plasma rifle, stand up and press kick.
3. There are probably more but I haven't checked them all yet. I know I once (or twice) saw a striker standing with a gun (normal possition) and he had some odd idle animation, like whiping the sweat from his head.

I'd gladly consult any melee weapons and provide detailed historical pictures for model making.

oooh! And who is Patrick?
http://www.geocities.com/ivons1/NS-BoN-page1.html

THe first few pages are crap but if you read into units and stuff, there are always good quotes there.
I especialy like the one from Sun cannon (which is in my signature). But also for crystal crab and a few others.
Enjoy!

Last edited by Ire Yosuke (07/20/09 09:07)

Iritscen · 07/20/09 10:07

love_Oni wrote:

how does the installer know it should install which package first?

Simple: AE package folder have numbers in their names. The numbers dictate the order in which the mods are actually installed. Thus, giving your mod a higher number than Loser's will override the Andrashi System if the mod is installed.

Gumby · 07/20/09 13:07

Iritscen wrote:

love_Oni wrote:
how does the installer know it should install which package first?
Simple: AE package folder have numbers in their names. The numbers dictate the order in which the mods are actually installed. Thus, giving your mod a higher number than Loser's will override the Andrashi System if the mod is installed.

As long as you have the patched isntaller.

@Ire: I haven't specifically tested it on 64 bit systems. I might need to recompile it for x64. What kinds of errors do you get?

Ire Yosuke · 07/20/09 14:07

http://img262.imageshack.us/i/errorlkq.jpg/

Iritscen · 07/20/09 14:07

Have you been scripting? :0) It looks like you need to replace your BSL files (for that level, at least) with the originals.

Ire Yosuke · 07/20/09 15:07

Plenty of such errors pup up for no apparent reason and it dosen't affect the gameplay. Link me to BSL ?
Note: I had clean Oni + AE instaled. yes I globalized.

Gumby · 07/20/09 15:07

in your Edition\Install\packages\VanillaBSL folder.

...if not, well, Oni's scripts have lots of random little bugs that only showed up when we reenabled console output.

love_Oni · 07/20/09 21:07

With the new AE, some bugs keep appearing even we didn't turn on the developer mode. I think that is annoying. Is there any ways to stop that?

Did you notice that the developer mode is quite different since this last AE?It doesn't pause the game when I press "." anymore. And sometimes it causes a "strange bug" like moving the camera to the very very far place. (?)

love_Oni wrote:
how does the installer know it should install which package first?
Simple: AE package folder have numbers in their names. The numbers dictate the order in which the mods are actually installed. Thus, giving your mod a higher number than Loser's will override the Andrashi System if the mod is installed.

OK. Problem solved.

Ire Yosuke wrote:

Also, note that Konoko rolls have a longer invunerability time than ani AI. It's especialy visable when fighting her in dream lab and doing "Lion Axe" attack, when rolling she blocks it, while any other AI does not. And I'm talking about a special roll that strikers rearly do. Stnad still press forward+shift and you'll see.

I know that the previous AE with Loser's modification attacks has rolling moves for all characters had invulnerable time. I'm confused. Why didn't he include that mod to this AE?

while as if you stun any enemy (even if the enemy has a gun), you'll just preform a regular throw, not a disarming one.

Of course, because that stun animation (caused by a VDG) is regarded as an unarmed animation, no matter if the character is holding a gun or not. So don't be confused again.

Could be taken from multiple characters and add Muros neck snap as a back throw. This way you'll have something like Konokos back braker move, since normal behind throw does little damage. Also, I think tankers forward+kick throw would be ok to add.

OK. Do you want something in addition? Increase damage for throw-target, increase their lie-down time?

Work on those irregular combos, I can help developing the AI so that TCTF elites will be a major pain in the ass.

Really? What are you planning to do? Have you know modding .oni file in .xml format?

P.S: the link you showed me somehow cannot be open.

Iritscen · 07/20/09 22:07

I just noticed this old GIF, I could have posted this a while back to resolve your confusion, Ire:

Gumby · 07/20/09 22:07

Sorry about the roll fixes. When I was reorganizing the animations, they must have fallen through the cracks.

love_Oni · 07/20/09 23:07

@Ire Yosuke: This is the list of all moves: http://wiki.oni2.net/Gameplay/Combat_moves
Once you work modding Oni, you will know many things.

@Iritscen: Do you know any good software that can make animation picture?

Last edited by love_Oni (07/20/09 23:07)

Ire Yosuke · 07/21/09 03:07

@love_oni: The necks snap should have it's original power and that's about it I guess. As for lion axe and all, they should do more damage since taking down syndicate elites later on even if being easy takes way too much time. Also, like I said, disarms :3

Iritscen · 07/21/09 09:07

love_Oni wrote:

@Iritscen: Do you know any good software that can make animation picture?

You mean GIFs? No, not really. But I'm on Mac anyway, so even if I did, I wouldn't be able to help you You can probably Google for "GIF creation" and find lots of programs, though.

love_Oni · 07/22/09 02:07

It seems that the newest OniSplit version (the one included in this AE) didn't do well. When I extract some TRAC files, it not only extracted the files but also created some junk files, such as:

-TRAC%54CTFswat_animations.xml
-TRAC%54anker_animations.xml
-TRAC%63omguy_animations.xml
-TRAC%64octor_animations.xml
...etc

And the normal TRAC files in .xml format are also wrong. In the file it writes that its ParentCollection is itself. (?)

I don't know if this only happens to me. Is something wrong?

P.S: Can I use the old OniSplit version to work with this new AE?
Edit: Hm... not good. This also happens with the old version.

Last edited by love_Oni (07/22/09 03:07)

paradox-01 · 07/22/09 04:07

The oni files are a bit messy. As provisory solution: try exporting an original level archive from "Oni/GameDataFolder/" and then convert your file to xml. Note that there's much less globalized, e.g. baba's trac will be in level3_Final.

Last edited by paradox-01 (07/22/09 04:07)

Iritscen · 07/22/09 07:07

I'm a little confused as to what the problem is, love_Oni. But if you just want some .oni files from Oni's game data, they are all in the AE's GDF, as always. If you want to mod TRACs, why not just copy them out from level0_Animations?

Ire Yosuke · 07/22/09 19:07

@love_Oni
Any progress ?

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